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Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Pitching TV Series (B5, and in general)
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>This might sound a little bit naive, but what was to stop any network
ripping off your hard thought-up work, and altering a few minor details, then touting it as their own show.</font>
Absolutely nothing. It happens a lot. It happened to Roddenberry when he pitched ST and a lot of that material ended up being used to make Lost in Space.
When the Abyss was in development, at least two other studios rushed forward with similar underwater movies to capitalize on it and co-opt any PR for their own purposes.
<font color=red>I've heard some rumours that this is what happened with DS9, but I'm not
sure whether to believe them.</font>
There's little question in my mind that the suits at Paramount wanted to co-opt what we were doing with B5. I know that they *resented* the show because it was, at that time, their belief that they pretty much owned the space SF genre.
I feel that they guided the development process in order to co-opt what we were
doing. And nothing I've heard from my sources inside the studio has given me
cause to think otherwise.
<font color=red>Obviously if another network uses your plots, characters etc it can be a
blatant copy, but sometimes things can be more subtle.</font>
They can indeed.
jms
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Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: How will the Crusade reruns be shown?
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
I've been given that information, but I don't feel it's my place to give that out, since it infringes on their ability to do their own PR.
jms
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Subject: Re: Thirdspace: When was it filmed?
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>Check my earlier response: Someone posted that PTEN was expected to become a network. I disagreed, saying that it wasn't set up for that and that the studio wouldn't have set up WB if that's what PTEN was created for.</font>
Incorrect, that's *exactly* what PTEN was created for. The problem they faced was that the stations they enlisted wanted an equity position (which is to say, they wanted to own a piece of the network). The position of WB is that they don't give anybody an equity position on anything...they'd rather own 100% of nothing than 50% of something. (It's insane, I know, but that was their position at that time.) So at the end of the day, the stations that made up the lion's share of PTEN, the Chris-Craft stations, went to Paramount, which DID offer them an equity position, and formed UPN.
Later, WB tried again and put together the WB with a different approach, similar in some ways to what was used to create UPN. At that time, what was PTEN was dissolved after B5's 4th season, and the rest of the emphasis went
into creating the WB.
<font color=red>I've heard what others have said about the internecine warfare. Yes, it does seem like an insane way to do business. Despite that, Warners isn't completely insane. They would not have set up two competing corporate entities each trying to become the fifth television network.</font>
Which is actually what they did...the corporate figures behind PTEN kept trying
to keep it together as WB was being born because the two fiefdoms are run by
different people and each has some amount of prestige on the line.
It's really not one company, it's different people in different divisions trying different things with little or no cross-departmental cooperation.
jms
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<font face ="Verdana">
<font color="Yellow">Ever notice how JMS kills off all the guys with nice hair? I mean, think about it...Marcus has beautiful hair, and he dies. Byron has long hair, and he dies. Many of Byron's male telepaths have long hair, and a bunch of them die. Seeing a pattern here?</font>
A male baldness pattern, perhaps?
Frankly, I think you're splitting hairs here.
jms</p>
<font color="Yellow">"Many of Byron's male telepaths have long hair, and a bunch of them die. Seeing a pattern here?"
</font>
Zathras blew joke.
Zathras meant to say, "Male pattern baldness." Male baldness pattern not make sense. Very bad. Or very bald. Zathras can never be sure.
Zathras always screw up joke. Zathras say, "Priest, rabbi, minister walk into bar. Bartender says, 'What is this, a joke?'" Never gets laugh. Requres too much explainings.
Zathras humor very sad.
Zathras sad, is very funny.
Universe hates Zathras.
jms
</p><font color="yellow">Zathrases!
Zathrasi?
</font>
Zathri.
jms
</p><font color="yellow">How does the Zathras line continue down the millenia?Assuming Zathri are male, what are the female equivalent (assuming the Zathri aren't hermaphrodites or clones)?
</font>
Zathras never get dates.
jms</p>
</font>
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<font face ="Verdana">
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Historical influence for the themes in B5...?
<font color="red"> If this has been a concern of your own; How much inspiration you derive from history for your stories; What are you major sources of inspirational interests...?</font>
I think it's important to look to the past for (if you will) signs and portents of the future. You take a historical scenario and lay it into a fictional universe and see where it takes you.
For B5 I looked a lot to the history of Russia, Germany, Greece, ancient Rome, and the Mid-East.
(One kind of fun aside: the story Londo tells about the guard assigned to watch over the first flower of springtime was actually a true story, set during the reign of the Tsars. Everybody thought, "How alien." Nope, that's just us.)
jms</p>
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: A question about Spider Man
<font color="red">I have a question about you're upcoming Spider Man run. You've said in the past that you hate it when people change your work, various times if I recall correctly. My question is how do you feel writing in another person's universe with another person's characters? I know you've said you'd like to introduce some new characters to Spider Man, but the majority of characters are already established ones. Is this harder or easier than, say, creating an entire cast of your own characters ala B5 or Rising Stars? Is working with someone else's characters a new field for you, or have you done that before?</font>
No, it's stuff I've done before...whenever I've worked on a TV series like Jake and the Fatman (I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry) or Murder, She Wrote or written prior comics with established characters (Teen Titans, Star Trek), you know you're dealing with somebody else's creation and you have to treat it with respect.
In the Spiderman case, it's actually been no more difficult than the Top Cow work because they're letting me do pretty much whatever I want, so it's a great experience so far.
jms
</p>
Subject: Re: ATTN:JMS Proof your work was not in vain
<font color="red">I was debating on a message board and someone said that they were tired of EVERY sci-fi series constantly being compared to B5. I replied that it wasn't that long ago that everything was compared to Star Trek, and to a lesser extent still is. His opinion is that Voyager and DS9 were head and shoulders above B5 in every way. In cast choices, effects etc. Well I say congratulations, that a show has at last broke the Trek curse that has haunted other SF shows for many years. This isn't show bashing, but maybe at last other series will get a chance to flourish.</font>
There's a certain one-sidedness to this. When B5 came out, and before, it was as you say compared with ST, as was any other attempt to do a futuristic space SF series. That seemed fine to the folks doing the comparison.
But once B5 became the point of comparison, a lot of these same people now felt that this was unfair.
There are those who understand what a paradigm shift is, and those who do not.
That aside, you cannot argue taste in actors or stories. If somebody likes a DS9 story or a Voyager story or actor better than a B5 story or actor, that's terrific. Subjective taste cannot be argued or redressed or debated. You may like chocolate covered blueberries better than chocolate covered cherries; I may prefer the latter. Where here is the problem?
A lot of people line up to hit B5 for reasons based on nothing more than their own personal tastes...they go into high dudgeon about it and carry on...it's like dressing up in a suit of armor to attack a hot fudge sundae.
They also tend to yell about the ratings for B5 as proof that ST, which generally rates better, is a better show and has always been such.
They tend to forget that the original ST fared so poorly in the ratings that it was considered a failure and canceled after 3 seasons. It was only in long term syndication that it began to find an audience.
They try to compare B5, a new show, against a series with 25 years of history in the cultural consciousness, and that's comparing apples and oranges. Come back in 25 years and compare B5 at 25 and ST and 25, and then we'll have a valid conversation.
But that said...and I don't know why I'm going on at such length here except that I have a few minutes to spare...the truth is that B5 will *never* be the popular show that ST is for precisely the reason that it's a show that requires you to really pay attention and follow threads across 110 episodes. Most people just don't have that kind of patience.
Which is absolutely fine by me. I never set OUT to make something that would be a big popular megahit...I wanted to tell This Story. And that was done. The rest is up to history.
jms
</p>
([email protected])
(all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd., permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine and don't send me story ideas)
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<font face = "Verdana">
<font color="Yellow">Is there any scifi out there worth watching on a regular basis?</font>
Purely subjective opinion on my part, but the best writing these days seems to be showing up in:
Sopranos
Oz
West Wing
Futurama
Buffy
Angel
Those are my must-see TV programs. I've also been impressed with the improvement in writing on Roswell. I kinda like Ed but I usually end up watching it through parted fingers 'cause for someone who grew up as socially awkward as I did, it's just painful....
jms
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<font color=red>I'm over half-way through this book, and I am totally shocked by it. It's very good! This is the first B5 tie-in which hasn't pissed me off in some way (so far <g>). In fact it could even be read as a straight science fiction novel.</font>
I tend to agree that this is probably the best of the trilogies done to date.
<font color=red>Since the demise of Psycomics at the end of January, I have missed jms'
weekly columns. I was wondering if you are planning to find a new site for the columns. Also, I was wondering if you are planning to have a personal web site of your own.</font>
No to both at this point.
jms
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<font face = "Verdana">
<font color="Yellow">I don't blame God for religion, but I am inclined to applaud the bumper sticker I once saw in Michigan which said "God save me from your followers". I know there are loads of decent, honest, faithful members of religions out there who mind their own business and lead by example, rather than trying to beat you senseless, but the ones who DO try and beat you senseless drive me further away every day.
</font></p>
There's a great quote from Mark Twain, who once said, "If Christ were here today, there is one thing he would not be: a Christian."
jms
</p>
<font color="yellow">
I finished Casting Shadows last night, and I am still convinced this is the best so far.
</font>
Yeah, me too.
<font color="yellow">
The book was longer, and so it seems that there was more space for us to get to know the characters. The problem with previous books was that there always seemed to be a constant race to get to the next episode.
</font>
That's something I was very pleased with when I saw the length of the book. You really need to spend time with the story and the characters for the incidents provided in the outlines to make any kind of dramatic sense or impact.
<font color="yellow">
There didn't seem to be any obvious padding.
</font>
None that I could see. And that's one of the things I hate most, which was one of the reasons the River of Souls book didn't get through, as much as there were other things to commend it.
<font color="yellow">
We finally had it confirmed that the Techno-Mages weren't just a race looking like humans - there are all kinds of aliens here!
</font>
You may sit down now.
jms</p>
<font color="yellow">
Years ago JMS mentioned that he was approached by the people who were putting together the new Outer Limits and he turned it down because he read a stupid JFK conspiracy theory script. I was wondering what he thinks of the show as it actually developed.
</font>
The child came out looking far more attractive than its parents.
jms
</p>
<font color="yellow">
Just don't go too far. I know someone who was driven so far away from the catholic religion that he started challenging their faith. To me that behaviour makes him no better than the bible bashers you are describing.
</font>
Do you mean *challenging* or do you mean *mocking*? Different things. Everyone's beliefs, whatever they are, should be challenged from time to time. Challenged in conversation. Challenged by new discoveries. By internal reflection.
If our ideas are not challenged on occasion, they run the risk of becoming so concretized that we no longer *think* about what we actually *believe*. And we are not able to therefore justify them or explain them. At the end of that challenge you may wind up right where you started, but at least you will now be stronger and more able to describe what you believe in, and why.
(There's a great story by Mark Twain you should read for more on this: "The Man Who Corrupted Hadleyburg." It says a lot of what happens to faiths when they are not challenged from time to time.)
Mocking, of course, is something else again.
jms
</p>
RE: C.S. Lewis
<font color="yellow">
Now THAT's unfair. Christian authors writing for Christian readers are under no obligation to start off each and ever oeuvre with an apologia for the sake of non-Christian readers.
</font>
Except, of course, that much of his stuff is marketed as straight-ahead fiction or speculative fiction, such as Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength and Till We Have Faces. I don't see The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe being sold in stores as specifically Christian literature. It's in the fiction section along with everything else. So the premise that he's writing only for Christian readers seems a little false to me.
And I used the Screwtape Letters only as one example, when clearly there are many others. And I'm far from the first person to maintain that he tends to go for the straw-man argument in most of his work that has theological leanings. And I do think that it's an intellectual cheat. I'd much rather see a mind that sharp turned in debate against a well-armed opponent than seeing him knock down somebody who was already hamstrung.
jms
</p><font size="-4">
[This message has been edited by Wizz (edited February 27, 2001).]
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<font color=orange>More religion posts</font>
<font color=red>I don't blame God for religion, but I am inclined to applaud the bumper sticker I once saw in Michigan which said "God save me from your followers".
I know there are loads of decent, honest, faithful members of religions out there who mind their own business and lead by example, rather than trying to beat you senseless, but the ones who DO try and beat you senseless drive me further away every day.</font>
There's a great quote from Mark Twain, who once said, "If Christ were here today, there is one thing he would not be: a Christian."
<font color=red>Just don't go too far. I know someone who was driven so far away from the catholic religion that he started challenging their faith. To me that behaviour makes him no better than the bible bashers you are describing.</font>
Do you mean *challenging* or do you mean *mocking*? Different things.
Everyone's beliefs, whatever they are, should be challenged from time to time. Challenged in conversation. Challenged by new discoveries. By internal reflection.
If our ideas are not challenged on occasion, they run the risk of becoming so concretized that we no longer *think* about what we actually *believe*. And we are not able to therefore justify them or explain them. At the end of that challenge you may wind up right where you started, but at least you will now be stronger and more able to describe what you believe in, and why.
(There's a great story by Mark Twain you should read for more on this: "The Man
Who Corrupted Hadleyburg." It says a lot of what happens to faiths when they
are not challenged from time to time.)
Mocking, of course, is something else again.
<font color=red>So, you're saying that Milton's *Paradise Lost* should be shelved in the Christian section of the bookstore, rather than in poetry or classics? </font>
No. Please do not put words in my mouth, I have enough trouble with the ones that get there on their own.
I did not say, or imply, any such thing.
For starters, the two aren't comparable in that Lewis always tended to see his work as subtle proselytization...I don't think that Milton or the others you note saw their works in quite that light. So right off the top you've pitched out a false analogy.
Second, I have NO PROBLEM with Lewis being in the straight fiction area, nor did I every say I *did* have a problem. All I said is that when going into his books, it helps for a reader to be aware of his predilections in terms of analyzing the straw-man approach he takes to his intellectual discourse as it
approaches religion and other thematic elements.
Are we now clear on this? Are you going to toss any more boogeyman arguments out there that have nothing to do with what I *said* but everything to do with what you *want* me to say so that you can stomp around indignantly, incensed at something that doesn't touch the reality of what I actually believe or said at any two contiguous points?
<font color=red>Since I'm not the only person who made that inference - and no, we're not in collusion - you might want to go back and read what you wrote again.</font>
I know what I wrote, and it had nothing to do with the inference you raise here. The problem is that one knee-jerk response fuels the next knee-jerk response.
I never, ever said that books by Lewis should be isolated in the religion area. Didn't say it, or imply it. I'm not liable for escalating misinterpretations
that fuel each other into hysteria.
<font color=red>Besides, [I nearly put a rhetorical "What do you want?" here.] isn't this creeping just a wee tad in the direction of asking for a Parental Warning Label, "Contains scenes of Religion"? </font>
May I ask where you got this from my simply saying that the man often times used straw-man arguments in his writings? Somebody asked for my opinion. I gave it. And now I get jumped on and accused of intolerance for saying the man set up easy targets on the firing range...now all of a sudden that's become this Christian warning labels analogy.
jms
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Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: any other announcements?
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>On Feb 13 you mentioned a few rather exciting news items and then stated
that there were other big announcements coming - possibly next week.
Were those announcements made, or are they still on simmer?</font>
I'll be posting this to the other thread asking the same question, just to save
time recomposing (or decomposing, I suppose)...
Here's my dilemma: there are two definite go projects that I can announce. But I can't announce either of them because it's not within my purview to do so. The studios have to make those announcements.
The problem is that one deal has only recently been concluded, and the other --
a done deal since January -- has been awaiting the studio PR department to put
out a press release. They haven't been in any particular hurry to do so since
(information deleted) won't start until the Fall.
So I've basically been going insane since January, with Big News to announce, but not being able to say *anything* because it would be a serious breach of studio protocol. If I so much as eep they'll beat the crap out of me (and rightly so, to be fair about it).
So I'm waiting as much as you are...with the exception that as a result of both these projects going ahead, I'm drowning in work and can't spend that much time thinking about how I'm going nuts.
jms
